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Re: Special Teams Matter

By TarquinTheDark
10/06/2019 11:28 am
Lamba wrote:
TarquinTheDark wrote:
I want that guy who can consistently land it at the five with a sideways bounce.

And how do you identify those?

Those are the Accuracy guys.
Last edited at 10/06/2019 11:29 am

Re: Special Teams Matter

By Infinity on Trial
10/09/2019 8:23 am
slowtospeak wrote:
I'm not scared of you at all. Just don't be hesitant to "cheat," because I certainly won't take it easy on you.


Come over to Die Hard and not take it easy on me with this terrific team, built by OmahaNYG: https://die-hard-fans.myfootballnow.com/team/18

Or any team in Rivals, a league built for hostility: https://rivals.myfootballnow.com/

Re: Special Teams Matter

By TarquinTheDark
10/10/2019 11:07 am
Time for the second installment of Special Teams Matter ... the one you've all been waiting for (some with anticipation, some with dread.)

THE PUNT RETURN (AND PUNT BLOCK)

Suddenly, everything is going wrong for your opponent ... He went from multiple third down conversions for a TD on his last drive; to not close enough for a field goal on this drive. Now you have the chance break his morale. How, you ask? By turning that "most boring" of football plays (the punt) on it's head ... making it the most exciting play (for YOUR team and fans, anyway). A great return or a blocked punt is debatably MORE demoralizing than an interception or fumble. With those other turnovers you interrupt your opponent's successful momentum. When he punts you've already stopped him, and are now about to compound his failure.

I've already discussed how to defend against punt blocks in the OP ... with speedy pass blockers in the wing, protector, and possibly even tackle positions, and speedy run defenders everywhere else. Of course, training your starting speedsters to pass block for ST has offended some owner's senses & sensibilties. Having accomplished that mission, now I'll tell you ... those guys need to be able to run block as well. That's right, your WRs need FB training.

Let's look at each position in the punt return formation.

Punt Returner - I'm going to discuss more than advise, because I believe that a competent PR with good blockers will do better than a superb PR with garbage blockers. Most GMs prefer a speedster here, others prefer a larger FB type runner who can shed tackles (you're probably facing second-stringers, half of them were just blocking for the punter, which generally makes those OLs with relatively lower speed and poor tackle skills ...) I can't say one way is better or worse, right or wrong. I've used both, and tried to combine them. Either way can work, either can fail.
Skills your PR needs are Kick Catching, Speed, Acceleration, Strength, Intelligence, Break Tackle, Ball Carry, Avoid Fumble, possibly Pass Reception Courage &/or Route Running (not necessarily in that order.)

Bullet Blockers(4) - I said you need fast run blockers. The fastest go here, probably the same guys you use as wings on your punts (except with RB instead of PB) ... unless you're RELYING on getting punt blocks, which is extremely inadvisable. Their job is to slow down the fastest coverage players, so they need Speed & Run Block. Acceleration & Strength are bonuses.

Tackles - These guys are the center of the punt return line. Instead of blocking the coverage team right away, they will first try to rush the punter. They will not succeed. Then they will turn and chase the coverage team downfield, hoping to get a block on somebody. Your PR needs them to make those blocks, so they have to be fast. I try to build them like Bullet Blockers. Everyone can't be fastest, so I use what's available. Any hands position, or sometimes a fast center or LT will do. Making an incompetent block is better than being in the wrong place, so I favor Speed and Acceleration over Run Block or Strength.

Wing Rushers - These are the guys who Punt Block. I will typically use my fastest DBs here. Sometimes if I have a super-fast WR with low Run Block skill, I will use him. Speed should be 90+, Acceleration 85+, in order to have a hope of success. They need to get past the Wings, past the Personal Protector, and block the Punt in less than three seconds. Three seconds is slow by RL standards. A competent, rested punter with Timing above 60 will still beat most punt blocks.
Now for the part that makes some people consider this an exploit - If the speed differential between the Wing Rushers and the Wings is high enough, the Pass Rush rating of the Wing Rushers is irrelevant. Standard punt line doctrine is to neutralize the inside threat. This generally works IRL, where the line is more fluid and the inside threat is the most significant. In MFN, a slow Wing will follow doctrine, often appearing to stand still as the Wing Rusher blows past him on the outside. This happens even though there are seven blockers on the line and one behind it, to stop six possible rushers.
If the block attempt fails, It's nice to have some Run Block skill, these guys are fast enough to get back into the play.

Ends - This is an interesting case. A good, fast pass rusher here can significantly help the Wing Rusher do his job. He can tie up one end of the line and keep the attention of the Wing for a critical second. He can penetrate and engage the Personal Protector. He can pick up a blocked punt, or be in the right place to throw a block when somebody else does. I typically use an OLB type for this assignment.
On the other hand, most punt block attempts are unsuccessful. the PR is going to need that extra blocker to break up the coverage team. For this task, I want ANOTHER fast run blocker.
I'm up to seven of those on this play now. Some people wonder why my teams have so few WRs? They are consistently suiting up OoP to get those blocking (and BT) skills. They can still play as WRs. They gain a little weight, lose a little speed, but after a few seasons, they have a certain bounciness that I like, and when they help each other downfield - I get TDs.
So for Ends, I have to make a determination how much of a return threat I want, and how much of a punt block threat I want. Two end blockers? (That makes eight.) Two end rushers? Returns will suffer. Is one and one the best of both worlds, or the worst?

That's it. There are so many things that can happen on this play, the advice has to be general. I welcome all comments and discussion. So, let the screaming, wailing, rending of garments, and gnashing of teeth begin. Good luck with your returns!

Last edited at 10/11/2019 1:00 am

Re: Special Teams Matter

By bmarq
10/12/2019 9:57 am
Very good and well thought out post.

Thank you

Re: Special Teams Matter

By slowtospeak
10/13/2019 7:59 pm
What really happens is the wing blockers throw an initial block and then run down the field to make the tackle, which is what they jolly well should do. Try to block the punt rushers one-on-one, and you will always have them outnumbered. If you devote a lot of people to defending blocked punts, you are conceding ground to the punt blockers, which you really should not.

Re: Special Teams Matter

By Guy Debord
10/15/2019 9:20 am
TarquinTheDark wrote:

Wing Rushers - These are the guys who Punt Block. I will typically use my fastest DBs here. Sometimes if I have a super-fast WR with low Run Block skill, I will use him. Speed should be 90+, Acceleration 85+, in order to have a hope of success. They need to get past the Wings, past the Personal Protector, and block the Punt in less than three seconds. Three seconds is slow by RL standards. A competent, rested punter with Timing above 60 will still beat most punt blocks.
Now for the part that makes some people consider this an exploit - If the speed differential between the Wing Rushers and the Wings is high enough, the Pass Rush rating of the Wing Rushers is irrelevant. Standard punt line doctrine is to neutralize the inside threat. This generally works IRL, where the line is more fluid and the inside threat is the most significant. In MFN, a slow Wing will follow doctrine, often appearing to stand still as the Wing Rusher blows past him on the outside. This happens even though there are seven blockers on the line and one behind it, to stop six possible rushers.
If the block attempt fails, It's nice to have some Run Block skill, these guys are fast enough to get back into the play.

Ends - This is an interesting case. A good, fast pass rusher here can significantly help the Wing Rusher do his job. He can tie up one end of the line and keep the attention of the Wing for a critical second. He can penetrate and engage the Personal Protector. He can pick up a blocked punt, or be in the right place to throw a block when somebody else does. I typically use an OLB type for this assignment.
On the other hand, most punt block attempts are unsuccessful. the PR is going to need that extra blocker to break up the coverage team. For this task, I want ANOTHER fast run blocker.
I'm up to seven of those on this play now. Some people wonder why my teams have so few WRs? They are consistently suiting up OoP to get those blocking (and BT) skills. They can still play as WRs. They gain a little weight, lose a little speed, but after a few seasons, they have a certain bounciness that I like, and when they help each other downfield - I get TDs.
So for Ends, I have to make a determination how much of a return threat I want, and how much of a punt block threat I want. Two end blockers? (That makes eight.) Two end rushers? Returns will suffer. Is one and one the best of both worlds, or the worst?



That's very interesting. Unlike you for me the ends make the job as punt blockers in my team. The ends blocked 6 out of 40 opponent punts in my last 5 games. (All vs real punters)

I use fast CB's with PR skills as Ends. On the position you described as the wing rushers I use OLB's to increase the pressure on the opponent blockers. In the middle of the line I usually use DT's, DE's or my backup MLB.

Works for me. :)

Re: Special Teams Matter

By TarquinTheDark
10/15/2019 11:14 am
There's been some discussion of punt blocks in Beta since I wrote this. Apparently, disregarding my success, I've been doing it wrong. The most likely position to get a punt block is the Right End. I'll be swapping some players around in a few leagues and see if the numbers improve.

Re: Special Teams Matter

By Smirt211
10/15/2019 11:16 am
Hopefully, JDB digs in there and halts this like punt return touchdowns back in the day.

Re: Special Teams Matter

By Smirt211
10/15/2019 11:22 am
In this instance I enjoyed the mis-information. Too bad it got corrected.

Re: Special Teams Matter

By slowtospeak
10/15/2019 1:29 pm
Smirt211 wrote:
Hopefully, JDB digs in there and halts this like punt return touchdowns back in the day.

I'm not actually hoping for this outcome, but it is likely. IMO, it would be much better to make the punt return team actually be accountable for what they do. All this nonsense goes on because the punt return team never has to play defense.