I honestly don't believe Billy at all. About anything. I actually think granddadb is just playing into Billy's game.

I had a thought last night. We all know Billy and his antics. Why are we trying to change that?

After this season I think the league should decide Billy's fate. Not that it is my league to make that decision. However, here we are still analyzing Billy and his actions even after GDB steps in.

Following this season it would only make sense for the internal league discussion to further exist.... if Billy stay in league he should be able to act independently without special rules or oversight (as if he is even listening) or Billy should get booted for his non effort and BSing.

Even in this scenario, reading through the Billy BS. Billy actively manages in league of legend which has already played in the New engine. Billy also knows the difference between an 11 year player and a 5 year player. It is ridiculous to hold his hand in this way especially when he disregards that information. It is also well documented that others have tried.

I'm at that point for a solid decision one way or another. Accept Billy and his antics or not. But I don't think any special rules or attention should be paid just to force Billy hand at playing to be competitive. There are other owners who would try harder on day one of their account.

Aww is that how you truly feel waitwut? I am definitely going to give you a smash down when I play your team next time.

:) I hope so. Seeing some life works be nice. And yes it is how I feel. Either accept who your are and your own decisions, or don't. It is really black and white.

I will take your antics and bad decisions. But if it is such an issue to any other owner, then it seems clear what they'd want.

I think that I am going to find someone better to play for me too. Then we can truly battle as thoughtless proxies.

In my truest opinion GDB is doing what he need to do to help you. To me, optically, that is one step from having your not play or him quitting.

TBH GDB did say he'd leave if people continued taking advantage of you which is why he is helping you. That to me sounds like one foot out the door.

Nobody voiced a complaint about Billy's trades until Grandad brought it up. What is the issue? That Grandad feels Billy is being taken advantage of? I don't think Billy had ever felt like he'd been taken advantage of. Or that Grandad feels teams are cheating to win? Because honestly, I feel Grandad has taken advantage of the whole league since he joined (2 League Championships in 4 seasons, with a 53-11 overall regular season record). I'm not saying Grandad cheats, he obviously knows how to play this game, but doesn't he take advantage of some things in the game in order to win? Isn't that what winning is about? As long as Billy and everyone is enjoying themselves, then who cares? Everyone saw the trade at the time, norm saw it, and no one complained at the time that I can remember, until Grandad brought it up.

However, Billy, my one complaint, you can't be making "side deals", and you can't be intentionally losing games for your friends or any other reason. You do need to try to win consistently. If you do that by using Grandad's advice (which I'm sure is excellent advice), other players' advice, or whatever you feel you need to do, you need to try to win. This would be the only way I would vote Billy out, is if he continues to intentionally tank season after season, and doing "side deals".

But I have no problem with Billy's trades, besides the "side deals".

Aside from that, this is a game, supposed to be fun, even for Billy. If dealing first round picks for 12 year veteran QBs year after year is fun for Billy, then let Billy be Billy. As long as he's doing it with true intentions of winning.

Just my opinion.

What happen if I. End up win the afc title? Would you guys still complain?

Resounding no. That is what everyone is asking you to aspire to do.

I just wanted to say that in the history of Football Moguls very few players have ever been booted, and never because of performance issues. Rather, the only ones to ever been kicked have been guys that don't communicate. We accept all strategies and moves. What might not make sense to some makes sense to others. When allegedly questionable stuff happens, I always reach out. Only those who stay silent after multiple attempts get the boot. Billy has always provided justification for all his moves. While certainly we might not all agree with their effectiveness, he's explained his strategies. Someone like billy will never be banned just because he loses all the time. This was never meant to be a super competitive league - rather, it was founded as more of a social league. As long as people are having fun, most stuff slides. Let's see if we can scale down the personal attacks and get back to having fun in the simulations. So billy, I do not care one bit if you make the playoffs or lose 16 games again, so long as your play fair and have fun.

But the final clarifications: yes, it is against the unstated rules to control two teams in the league. The only person to do that is me, when we need emergency fixes for teams and I bring by second account in to fix things. Otherwise, teams are supposed to operated independently. And also "giving draft picks to friends" also is against the spirit of the game. I'm sure it bugs people when people like billy say stuff like that. If that's not what happened, don't say that, because otherwise it makes it seem like the deal was made in part based on past friendship and not getting the best deal. Short version: no hints of collusion please.

those who know me know that Ive always "coached" where needed, both in reaching out or asked for. Billy is no different and it really started when he posted about his salary cap problem and I knew I could help him with it when I looked at his roster. I knew that he was "different" and unusual in his demeanor and past actions with his rosters. When I saw that he had traded away the 1.1 pick, which was used this past draft to get a "franchise type player" , and rightly so, I felt concerned that it was overlooked. And there was the very rare occurance that the same team had both 1.1 and 1.2 picks. The trade value differential of the trade for Billy's 1.1 stinks, plain and simple, and happens thanks to a trade meter value that does not reflect the actual value of players. Ive had league leaders in their position stat categories that have had less than 100 trade meter value, and others have had the same. Ive had 1400-2000 raters that did not perform up to that level and value. So, in any case, what's done is done, and hopefully wont continue to happen in Moguls, now that it has become more of a debate and concern. And there is no issue of controlling more than one team, you will not see any trades between Billy and myself, my intent is as it always is, to help someone who is involved in the game, posts on the season threads, and wants to improve and compete.

just fyi a owner of a team who control two same account using the same IP address will not be able to trade with the same owner of those two accounts. So be assured that I and Grandad will not do any trade in the futures. I am only see him as my sensei Kakashi from Naruto.