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Re: Special Teams Depth Chart

By WarEagle
5/27/2016 7:00 am
jdavidbakr wrote:
The only reason for the increased injury rate right now is that it's just another play that they are on the field. It doesn't take into account that the collisions are far more fierce in ST than they are in most regular plays. (thus why the NFL is trying to get rid of kickoffs)


This contradicts what you said in your original response:

jdavidbakr wrote:

There is an increased risk of injury (just because of the fact that it's an additional play and there's a bit more high speed collisions in ST)

Re: Special Teams Depth Chart

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
5/27/2016 7:07 am
WarEagle wrote:
jdavidbakr wrote:
The only reason for the increased injury rate right now is that it's just another play that they are on the field. It doesn't take into account that the collisions are far more fierce in ST than they are in most regular plays. (thus why the NFL is trying to get rid of kickoffs)


This contradicts what you said in your original response:

jdavidbakr wrote:

There is an increased risk of injury (just because of the fact that it's an additional play and there's a bit more high speed collisions in ST)


You're right, my apologies on that - my last comment is actually correct. I have been thinking a lot about this but haven't implemented anything yet. Essentially my comment about increasing injuries on ST would be because of the high speed collisions.

Re: Special Teams Depth Chart

By WarEagle
5/27/2016 7:13 am
raymattison21 wrote:
WarEagle wrote:
jdavidbakr wrote:
There is an increased risk of injury (just because of the fact that it's an additional play and there's a bit more high speed collisions in ST) - but I know you can have greater success with your starters at ST.

I do intend to increase the injury rate on special teams plays (especially kickoffs and punts) because I want to discourage the use of using your starters there, since that's why NFL teams don't put their stars out on ST. But I won't do that until I have some additional controls to prevent your starters from playing special teams.

I'm also thinking about having a 'special teams' attribute that gives a boost to players on ST.


Why would you increase the injury rate when you've just said there is already an increase in the chance of injury for players that play on ST?

If you increase the injury rate for ST plays to try to force us to use scrubs, eventually we'll have to use starters anyway due to the new injuries.

I don't like this idea.

I can't use Deion Sanders as my PR because he's also a starter? Or Tim Brown? Antonio Brown? Reggie Bush?

Doesn't make sense to me how this would be considered to be something that would improve MFN. I would definitely see it as a negative change.



None of those players were used in the capacity that players are used in this game.

A.Brown stopped KR when he had more responsibility at wr. Still only 1500 career PR yards. 9.7 avg.

T. Brown also stopped KR when he emerged as a star reciever.

D.Sanders stopped KR for a while also. Rarely did both KR and pr at same time. Missed over 30 games but played baseball which shortened his career.

Reggie Bush doesn't really return kicks but he can. Also, notorious for the ir. He missed over 30 games also.

This game has guys 5000 plus total scrimmage yards. That couldn't stop sooner.


My post didn't mention anything about KR specifically. The only specific play I mentioned was PR.

I also didn't mention that there weren't too many PR TDs.

I was mentioning that I didn't think there should be an additional penalty by jacking up the injury rate on ST plays.

On a side note, I give up VERY few PR TDs, so I know from experience they can be stopped with a good degree of success. There are plenty of other owners who have success stopping them as well.

If there is an aspect of the game that some teams do well, and others do not, I don't think that rises to the level of something that is in dire need of fixing. Seems pretty realistic to me. I'm not saying the number of PR TDs is realistic as compared to the NFL, but this is not the NFL. I bet if some of those great returners actually had the ball kicked to them on every punt they would have had more yards and TDs. There are a ton of things real players/coaches in the NFL can do to combat great returners that we cannot do in MFN (and every other aspect of MFN). Our gameplanning / scouting tools are VERY limited. We should not expect every team and STAT to mirror what you see in the NFL. THAT is not realistic.

Should JDB make it easier to run the ball because some teams only average 2 yds/carry, or should he make it harder to run the ball because some teams average 7 yds/carry?

Where does this end? Is the desired end result that every single team has the same success running, passing, punt / kick returns, field goals, sacks, etc? It isn't for me.

Re: Special Teams Depth Chart

By raymattison21
5/27/2016 8:49 am
MistbornJedi wrote:
Punt returns have to be overhauled generally (though I do like the idea of a special team attribute).

The NFL record for punt return yards in a season is 875. Record for punt return TDs is 4.

Picking just one example, look at the return leader for a single season in CUST21 (I happen to be playing against him tomorrow night). This guy has 2,485 yards and 8 TDs. That's nearly 3x the number of yards anyone has ever had IRL, and 2x the TDs.

Punt returns are way too effective!


Other factors are the number of punts, because that relates to the returns. A poorly ran team or one looking to increase draft pick value will punt more than the nfl teams.

Also, the nfl has more logic. Most of those return men mentioned earlier, punters, would by accident give them a returnable ball. Like here if that gap is there your like "TD!"

The fair catch numbers might be low.

Perhaps here some guys going for it on 4th down in side the 50, would lower the chance of fair catches from big legged punters. If a punter is punting outside the 50 or even deep in his own territory I see a greater chance here of the return man busting a big one.

More punters should kick away or add more hang time based off intelligence of course, using score, field postion, and how good the PR is. I would like a toggle option to kick away from the returner too.

Re: Special Teams Depth Chart

By raymattison21
5/27/2016 9:15 am
WarEagle wrote:
raymattison21 wrote:
WarEagle wrote:
jdavidbakr wrote:
There is an increased risk of injury (just because of the fact that it's an additional play and there's a bit more high speed collisions in ST) - but I know you can have greater success with your starters at ST.

I do intend to increase the injury rate on special teams plays (especially kickoffs and punts) because I want to discourage the use of using your starters there, since that's why NFL teams don't put their stars out on ST. But I won't do that until I have some additional controls to prevent your starters from playing special teams.

I'm also thinking about having a 'special teams' attribute that gives a boost to players on ST.


Why would you increase the injury rate when you've just said there is already an increase in the chance of injury for players that play on ST?

If you increase the injury rate for ST plays to try to force us to use scrubs, eventually we'll have to use starters anyway due to the new injuries.

I don't like this idea.

I can't use Deion Sanders as my PR because he's also a starter? Or Tim Brown? Antonio Brown? Reggie Bush?

Doesn't make sense to me how this would be considered to be something that would improve MFN. I would definitely see it as a negative change.



None of those players were used in the capacity that players are used in this game.

A.Brown stopped KR when he had more responsibility at wr. Still only 1500 career PR yards. 9.7 avg.

T. Brown also stopped KR when he emerged as a star reciever.

D.Sanders stopped KR for a while also. Rarely did both KR and pr at same time. Missed over 30 games but played baseball which shortened his career.

Reggie Bush doesn't really return kicks but he can. Also, notorious for the ir. He missed over 30 games also.

This game has guys 5000 plus total scrimmage yards. That couldn't stop sooner.


My post didn't mention anything about KR specifically. The only specific play I mentioned was PR.

I also didn't mention that there weren't too many PR TDs.

I was mentioning that I didn't think there should be an additional penalty by jacking up the injury rate on ST plays.

On a side note, I give up VERY few PR TDs, so I know from experience they can be stopped with a good degree of success. There are plenty of other owners who have success stopping them as well.

If there is an aspect of the game that some teams do well, and others do not, I don't think that rises to the level of something that is in dire need of fixing. Seems pretty realistic to me. I'm not saying the number of PR TDs is realistic as compared to the NFL, but this is not the NFL. I bet if some of those great returners actually had the ball kicked to them on every punt they would have had more yards and TDs. There are a ton of things real players/coaches in the NFL can do to combat great returners that we cannot do in MFN (and every other aspect of MFN). Our gameplanning / scouting tools are VERY limited. We should not expect every team and STAT to mirror what you see in the NFL. THAT is not realistic.

Should JDB make it easier to run the ball because some teams only average 2 yds/carry, or should he make it harder to run the ball because some teams average 7 yds/carry?

Where does this end? Is the desired end result that every single team has the same success running, passing, punt / kick returns, field goals, sacks, etc? It isn't for me.


I know you know but I though you were saying anyone can do it. The fact is they cant. First off, kick catching, should play more of a role. Every person has a small muscle in their neck, that if not trained they will not be able to field anything while running. That is science. One flaw of the many in the return game.

I don't let up TDs either, but the numbers are real and they are in every league, being the decision maker in many games. Idk. Just trying to help sorry if you felt singled out.

This was in relation to injuries. And there are a 5 x chance to get injured on special teams irl. The numbers are real. Here with little threat of that all numbers will be inflated.

My stance, is nothing of what you said in those last two paragraphs. One flaw of return game is injuries. I don't know what you are referring to there. That is all you.

Re: Special Teams Depth Chart

By Brrexkl
5/28/2016 5:21 pm
Actually, we (the Cleveland Browns) are looking at having TWO First Rounders as Returners.

Our WR Coleman from this Draft, and CB Justin Gilbert who was also a Top 10 Pick a 2 Years ago.

Re: Special Teams Depth Chart

By Brrexkl
5/28/2016 5:30 pm
I love the idea of greater KO/Punt 'logic', leading from Intelligence.

Coffin Corner and Flat Skips are used to help negate Returns, and they don't seem to happen here (though Flat Skips are rather rare, but effective).

With KO it's more about do you want extra hang time to get down there, but at the risk of really shortening the kick so they catch at the 5 or 10 instead and have an easy task getting to the 20 (but can be on the 1 to 3 Yard Line if done well, giving you time to shut them down before getting to the 20).

And I love the idea of a ST Skill.

Re: Special Teams Depth Chart

By TAFIV
5/28/2016 5:41 pm
+1 on the ST skill, also can something be done about training camp and STs??? irl players listed as ST in the depth chart actually practice both main position and ST position in TC here the only way to get ST pos xp is during games since TC only trains the assigned position and not depth chart postions, so it takes forever to get to 100 pos experience on ST

Re: Special Teams Depth Chart

By Brrexkl
5/28/2016 5:44 pm
I need to find the area that explains how Training actually works.