Am currently helping Billy with his team and was wondering what happened to his 1.1 pick. Well I found this deal, and as far as Im concerned, it is much worse than violating a positional weight rule or having a WR at RB to gain a little speed. If you want fair play, and good league rules, then this kind of BS should not be allowed. Tell me Im wrong if you think so, but I will put my player weights and value knowledge up against enyone else playing this game. And as far as this Shite trade and rip-off goes, its one of the worst that Ive seen in my time playing this game, 5 years now. If this trade is not rectified or reversed, then Im out of Moguls, thats how strongly I feel about it, Ive caught flak, and rightly so, for violations of rules, but never intentional and when I get a note about a roster violation, I take care of it right away. But Ive never ripped off a losing team/owner for their 1st and 2nd round picks. Show me where Im wrong about this trade, cuz I dont see it. Lot of good these players did for Penn, huh. They didnt win a game last season. This was blatant taking advantage of Billy.

Independence Pirates sends:
David Hooks (WLB)
Michael Huber (FS)
Ross McKibben (MLB)
Tom Hubbard (CB)

Pennsauken Del Fuego Phoenix sends:
2037 Round 1 (Pennsauken)
2038 Round 1 (Pennsauken)

I don't see how the trade can be reversed over a season later.

I agree it should've been looked at deeper at the time by owners who are familiar with the players in the League.

From a personal standpoint, I should declare a vested interest in the deal as I think one of Billy's original round one picks was included in the deal for my 1.2 pick this season.

If this deal is blocked now, I would propose something along the lines of compensatory picks to go to Pennsauken along the lines of 2*2nd round picks over the next three seasons for a pair of 4th or 5th rounders.

But....it would need to have been looked at by the League Admin and a couple of 'trustworthy' owners. (I have zero interest on being on said panel of adjudicators).

Then if any future deal is considered too lopsided they can agree on either the two owners reversing the deal, or forcing a team to send compensatory picks to balance the original deal

So in this league we have never had a canceled trade ever, because our general rule is that so long as the trade is within the realm of reasonableness, everyone here is an adult and makes the decision they want. There have been plenty of trades in the history of the league that I would never ever have done personally, but whether something is a "rip off" is really in the eye of the beholder.

In addition, as we all know, billy is a special case. He's not a newbie owner - he's been playing as long as me. He knows exactly what he's doing. People have advised him time and time again. He has sworn over and over that this time he's keeping his picks and building through the draft. Yet every time, he ends up trading all his first round picks for established player. Billy got several starting level defensive players in that trade. Would I start them? Probably never. I think those players he got were terrible. But billy has his own evaluation method (the one where Daniel McCrea is a legend QB), so in his eyes, these guys were worth two first rounders. He doesn't value those picks at all. (and if you read my post about the worst trades in history, his trades actually don't stack up that bad - first rounder bust, but the guy he gets is established) He wants to make trades to win now. He knows what he is doing. And when it blows up, his answer is that he's intentionally losing!

So it's a long way of saying, I have always agreed that we should protect newbie owners from bad trades, but simply put, that almost never happens anymore. Everyone plays pretty legit.
The only guy selling the farm for mediocre players is one guy. We all know who. So I consider "taking advantage" of billy to be a special case - I think he has fun doing all his trades (even though they are really dumb trades). In fact, I'm pretty sure it is billy himself proposing these deals, not unscrupulous owners, so I'm not going to stop him from doing it. But I encourage you Grandad, maybe you will finally be the guy to talk some sense into him. Teach him the ways!

I was typing my response when norm posted his, but I pretty much echoed everything he said.


First admission, I wouldn't have made that trade. But in Xero's defense, billy has said many times publicly that he doesn't value draft picks and trades them away because he prefers veterans. If you look at the traded players' stats, they all performed reasonably well, especially the DBs who are younger and have a few years left.

Billy said many times in the chat he was hoping to go 0-16 to give his players "experience" - mission accomplished. I doubt he thought he was trading away the #1 overall pick when he made the deal, but I think it's pretty hard to lose every game without poor game planning. Billy has played MFN twice as long as I have, so he knows how to properly evaluate players.

If this was a 30 day owner making the deal I can see that it was exploitive, but after four years billy knew what he wanted and made the deal. I don't think there's any way to reverse it, so I say let it stand and pray you don't get the Pirates on your schedule. Just my two cents.

I of course, will fully disagree and take exception to being called out for "taking advantage" of a player in this trade. You see what the trade values are now, compared to what the trade values were then. Billy and I talk frequently in private chats. Billy told me he needed to fill out his defense, and he could make a run for the playoffs, that his offense was good enough. I talked it over with him and offered him 4 of my starters since I was looking at going another route on defense. Let's not forget the fact that this also made it so I am 76 million in dead cap this year, and thus was unable to even think about signing any premiere talent in the first few free agency passes. Did I know that I was going to end up with the 1.1? No, in fact, as i said, I was under the impression that the defense was going to help him. Did I realistically think I'd gotten a top 15 pick, yes. Also, how many times did Billy throughout the year, talk about losing every game all season long. So of course they didn't win. You can't win if you don't try. He was happy with McCrea losing all his games to get experience. That's my two cents.

X

My input,

Xero have not done anything wrong. that trade was for 2nd round pick for McCrea at that time I need to replaced Mentzer. my biggest stupid move I make was trade sam evans and clarence harp back and forth to xero to cause my capitals to hit rock bottom to heavy debt. These players is indeed not helping much for my team this season because my team is in a mess with heavy debts, weight issues, qb is super old, defence team need serious rebuild. my biggest mistake is causing a big mess on the capital.

when I say I am super happy that McCrea is losing games is to help him gain experiences for future long term. Meanwhile I will learned from Grandad advices to fix my overall of my offense and defense team to improve it for the next couples of years.

I appreciate and understand the situation around this trade, but in my opinion, its no different of an "exploit" than using the punt block. Not only does a trade like this hurt a team, in this case, Billy's, its also unhealthy for a league, in general, and Ive seen and experienced what happens when a team accumulates more than its fair share of 1.1 - 1.20 picks. So, ok, Ive said my peace, I feel bad for my friend Billy, and I know he thought he was doing a good deal, but it was not. Four starters? BFD, would you like me to break down those players and show you their actual value? and most likely average stats at best? Thats how bad that trade was, congrats X, that was the best theft Ive seen so far in 5 years playing this game. And since you have a problem with the sal cap, how bout you trade back the 1.1 for a couple of starters and the 2nd round pick?

I definitely agree that trades like this affect the league balance and if there were a rash of them, it would ruin the league, with teams monopolizing first round picks. But my observation is that it isn't a pervasive problem in this league. Yes, there are other teams trading away multiple first rounders for the hope that one player put them over the top. Those trades are also lopsided, but I think we can agree that those teams legitimately believe this is the key move to make, even if history has shown it rarely works out that way. In a way, I think billy believes it too, as X3ro pointed out, in the PMs, billy thinks these are the key winning moves! And would this trade look as bad if billy had actually started a legitimate QB, tried to win, and finished mid pack with this pick being like pick 13? Maybe it's also the 20/20 hindsight that plays into it. The year before, billy won a shocking 6 games and maybe he felt he was on the upswing? His intentionally losing all 16 games doesn't help this look any better.

But again, the only person I see ever getting totally ripped off is one team, so what can we do to regulate that? The only thing I can say is that if you don't like a trade, speak up immediately so at least we can debate it at the time and try to deal with it then. I mean, Grandad you were in the league when that trade went down - waiting until a season later to bring this up is too late - there's no way to unwind things at this point. We're not going to have a trade review committee or anything, but in my subjective opinion, if enough people complain, I'll revoke a trade.

Im going to refer to this particular trade as the "Boy Scout Leader" "Let me help you son", "Are you cold? We can put our sleeping bags together" ...... Ha!

"Did I know that I would end up with the 1.1" and the 1.2, what a coincidence.

I missed this trade when it happened, as apparently most everyone else did also. As far as protecting an "unusual" team owner from this kind of trade, I would go with a "No trade of 1st & 2nd round picks for his team, up until the point that he wins 8 or more games. We have all these other rules to try and stop game exploits, this trade is just as bad an exploit as any.