I'd also like to remind everyone I traded a very good wide receiver to Billy for one of those juicy first rounders (and some 3rds), just to have Billy run off like 6 wins in a row to make it a 13th pick instead of a top 3 that I expected.

Not complaining, you win some you lose some, but probably wouldn't have made that trade for a 13th pick had I'd have known.

lol..it is pretty funny that it took this long for billy to finally have a rule made just for him. we've had billy ball now we have the billy rule.

i also find it hilarious that for a league that has owners "exploiting" speed to use certain plays and positions, that a trade is what causes the most uproar.

do i find the trade "fair?" absolutely not but after so many seasons, I think most can agree, billy has his own way of valuing players and draft picks. **** he offered a first rounder for my punter once! (for the integrity of the league, I declined the trade to save billy from billy.)

i would suggest though if billy makes another trade involving his draft picks again that everyone pay close attention to it so this doesn't happen again. think david stern and the chris paul to lakers trade that was vetoed. for the "integrity and competitive nature of the league,"

Ray Guy is 1st round material. Don't @ me!

I get an overall sense that this is still focused at Billy and his antics.

As much fun as it is, why are we just not requesting Billy to try or leave? Seems unfair for these opinions to fly and not once has Billy stepped up to simply say "I will be even slightly less ridiculous going forward"

I don't want anyone to leave, but it is weird to me that he basically brought all of this on and is just sitting on the sidelines of this conversation. The few things he says were tainted with Billy logic. GdB point is valid to me still, just focused incorrectly.

This statement is BS. Per norm post Meltzer by far his best qb for years but Billy would bench. Xero also gave multiple d pieces, though not to talent they were NOT the reason he went 0-16. Finally the capital had zero effect on last season.

Also bs, still under this weird impression that losing makes you better. Shame on whoever convinced Billy of this. Or did he teach himself this trick?

I mean that's what it boils down to isn't it? It isn't a league wide problem, but a problem of one person. But we're not kicking people out for poor performance and we're not legislating how you run your team, unless you are compromising the integrity of the game. And viewed in isolation, none of Billy's moves are truly game breakers. They aren't any worse than things the Houston Texans have done in real life, trading all their picks away for veterans who are unable to lift their squad.

The one thing I will say that rubs me wrong is the thing brought up by Seattle, which is in addition to this disastrous trades, the constant comment of "I'm doing this to help my friend out" "I'm going to lose this one for you" "I won't try this week because of my opponent." We don't have a lot of rules around here, but we don't allow collusion. Collision violates the spirit of the game for sure. I've only allowed billy's stuff to slide because I truly believe that billy's actions would not make a difference at all - that even if he did his "I'm trying to win" version of his game plan as opposed to "random mode let my buddy win" I think his chances are roughly the same - he will probably lose regardless. So long as he's not making a mockery of the game by playing linebackers at kicker or starting WR at QB or stuff like that, I've been giving billy a pass on his collusion, but I will say that I don't like the suggestion that billy is trying to lose more games so that the team he traded his picks to get higher picks because he is his friend.

The big conclusion to all this seems like it's up to billy to clean up his act - and maybe up to all of us to be more like Irvine and "save billy from himself" and not accept all the crazy trades he proposes. I'll monitor billy's trades like I always do - and it's true that there probably hasn't been one trade that billy did recently that I myself would have done, but so long as it is within reason, when viewed in isolation, we will continue to let things go. But hopefully, all this talk gets billy to reconsider his strategies - but ultimately, if he doesn't care about winning, but only collecting players he likes, who are we to stop him from his fun I guess? As billstein pointed out, we can't force him to play like everyone else, nor would he want to play like everyone else. He wants to do it his way. I'm going to let him, but Grandad's advice to billy - don't trade until you hit 8 wins - is probably a good advice.

And I will commit to not trading with billy just like Irvine.

Well, there were a lot of good points made in the posts on this subject, thanks to you all who have expressed opinion on it. Im going to continue to try to help Billy and see what happens, it started when he posted that he was open again for trading due to a sal cap problem. That problem has been solved and am advising him on roster moves, which anyone can track by looking at the transactions on his team page. I appreciate those who post in the forums and are into the game, regardless of current capability. Im helping another who has played the game over 4 years and asked me if scouting was important and what a rule was. Im willing to pass on what Ive learned and experienced to anyone who is trying to learn or improve, as that is what makes a league better, when there are fewer teams that are getting beat regularly and trading away high picks for less value in return.

Are we done with this thread yet? I like to see more football fight coming up.

It a new clause I am working on, "Win 16 games first and No trade of draft pick forever."

So Xero enjoying the last two season of my draft picks and after that I won't trade draft picks ever again.